December 31, 2010

Rejecting Genocide

'Tis a few minutes past midnight in my abode.

I wonder what time it REAL-ly is?

I recently received an email in which the author stated there was a REAL day Jesus Christ was born, and in the future there is a REAL day when he will return (the author's caps, not mine), and that there is a real day coming when people who reject Jesus Christ will be thrown into the wine press of God's wrath and their blood will be as deep as to a horse's bridle for 200 miles.

I had a mental image of a river of red. Then the thought, "Is not that a type of genocide?" On the coattails of that thought, an image from the cover of the book "Martin Luther: Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" popped into my head.

I simply no longer believe that God is a God of wrath. Neither do I want to worship such an entity.

It is not a balanced weight of justice to spill blood based on the rejection of a "loving" savior. What is loving about that kind of justice? (Perhaps part of the rationalization for a belief in that type of so-called justice comes in one's definition of what it means to reject Jesus Christ.)

I rejected the idea of a burning hell when I was 18 years old. Why would any entity of Love torment someone and do it forever?

The Way International taught/teaches annihilation of the rejectors, a 2nd and final death. At the time I found The Way (at 18 years old), I could swallow a belief in annihilation much more easily than eternal torment.

Immediately after I exited The Way (after 28 years of being a loyal true believer), I was reading the book of Romans. I became engrossed with the Amplified Bible's translation of Roman 5, verses 15 through 19. I thought about those verses for months, rolling them over and over in my mind, trying to grasp and comprehend, at least a little, the expanse of grace. How humankind cannot work one little iota for God's acceptance; that it is totally and completely free? To me, even believing came in the category of works. Believing was the price; didn't I have to "do" something (ie: believe) to gain God's acceptance?

Those verses in Romans in the Amplified Bible state that the effect of what Jesus Christ accomplished can't even be compared to the fall of mankind? How could that be? I believed that "the fall" affected every thing on earth: tainted the blood of man; affected the earth itself - the soil, the air, the content; brought death and shame and evil. So whatever it was that Jesus Christ accomplished, couldn't even be compared with the effects of that contamination? It would have to be so big, so large, so expansive...like beyond and outside our minds to even begin to comprehend. And it wouldn't be based on any works? Not even believing? Could it be that big? What about believing on the Lord Jesus Christ?

About 3 months into my almost daily pondering of this HUGE idea, I met someone online (and then in person) that introduced me to Christian Universalism (CU). I spent the next 10 months or so reading and reading and reading. The approach of the CU interpretation to the scriptures made more sense to me than any eternal damnation, whether that damnation be a forever-burning torment or an annihilation into non-existence and/or never having existed. (Neither of those is just or loving, imo.)

I resonated much with Dr. Tom Talbott's various essays and his book "The Inescapable Love of God."

I slowly gave up the belief of annihilation and accepted the possibility of reconciliation for all.

And alas, I have continued to read various angles regarding various takes on the God debate, and the various takes on various "holy" books.

If there is a REAL time when eternal justice is handed out, I reckon we will all find out about it. There isn't a whole lot of control I (or anyone else) has over such a time. If there is such a time, I imagine we will all be in for some surprises.

I sure hope those surprises don't involve genocide and if so, that I'm counted with the rejectors.

Amen...for a few thoughts on this final day of 2010.

6 comments:

April Galamin - Griffiths said...

Thanks for that! the idea of a deity that would torture someone for a wrong belief to me is not a god I choose to worship.

To make men/women "sinful" then turn around & blame humankind...it makes no sense that a reasonable, loving, merciful & kind creator would do that. I think the vengeful god is the making of some men with serious "control" issues. Fear is a great way to control people...& eternal hell is a horribly terrifying concept.
But...it obviously works as a great control mechanism.

Well, just my thoughts on it.
I always appreciate yours. :)
Have a wonderful NEW YEAR!!
Love ya! :)

oneperson said...

Excellent thoughts...of course. :-D

That whole eternal torment thing is horrendous. Decent people wouldn't even do that!

Annihilation into non-existence is also horrendous. I didn't think so until I was conversing with an ex-Pentecostal who stated: "I'd almost rather at least my acknowledgement be known than to have my life totally obliterated to mean nothing." (not an exact quote, but close) It struck a chord in me.

Love you April!!

To live,
~carol

BTW: I found a picture of the river of blood....
River of Blood

Anonymous said...

As the writer of that e-mail, I'd like to add some thoughts: People are very happy to have God be a God of love, but God is also a God of justice. There is no place in Scripture that talks about eternal torment, even for the devil and his angels ... it will take them a while to "burn up" in the lake of fire, but even the devil himself is not tormented forever. As you know, the only people that end up not with eternal life, but with eternal death are those who reject Jesus Christ as their lord and savior (Romans 10:9), so you have the comfort of knowing you have eternal life, no matter whether you believe any of what you once believed. Because of the grace of God ... there are some neat teachings MT did that helped me and others to understand why wrath is necessary and not genocide. I realize I may be wasting my typing, but for anyone who might read this later, I would like to have it on record that YOU already have eternal life. And yes, I suspect there will be lots of folks (including me) who will be in for some surprises ... but at least WE (including you) have the guarantee of eternal life because long ago, we confessed Romans 10:9 as truth.

oneperson said...

Yes, I'm aware of the belief regarding annihilation, which means there isn't eternal torment.

Likewise, I'm aware of the belief of eternal torment.

I'm also aware of the belief of reconciliation for all. That doesn't mean there isn't/won't be justice.

For me, the belief of reconciliation for all makes more sense....even with the scriptures.

Perhaps it might be of benefit for folks to take some time to look at the reconciliation interpretation along with the biblical interpretations of eternal torment and annihilation.

No, I do no "know" that "the only people that end up not with eternal life, but with eternal death are those who reject Jesus Christ as their lord and savior (Romans 10:9)." At one time I "knew" that...but no longer.

It simply makes no sense that a loving creator would annihilate forever those who have done good, loved others, but simply never confessed Romans 10:9&10.

What of those who haven't done good? Well they make it too, (once there is a change of heart) according to the reconciliation-for-all interpretation.

But I have no desire to argue biblical beliefs and scriptural interpretations. And I doubt you do either. :-)

As far as genocide...the definition of the word speaks for itself, imo.

From the wiki link in my blog entry:
"The systematic killing of substantial numbers of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, or other particularity.
Acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group."

The argument could be made that God doesn't do the killing, He simply allows it because the people didn't meet the condition.

If an "all-powerful" and "all-knowing" and "all-loving" and "all-just" God allows such...I simply don't want that God. I'd rather be annihilated.

If eternity ends up as you interpret, I reckon I'll just have to swallow my words and conform.

Thanks for the comment!

PS: I sent you an email.

Anonymous said...

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

oneperson said...

Yah, agree. :-) And thankful we can do so.

xo
~carol