Last Thursday I drove along Interstate-40 through North Carolina. A clear Carolina blue sky day. Sun bright. Air crisp with a bite of wind. Winter clear.
I drove west toward the mountains, but would stop at their eastern edge in Hickory. I looked forward to visiting my friend Barbara; she had back surgery three days prior on Monday and was still in the hospital. After Barbara, I would meet Linda for supper; her 75-year old mom had a nose amputation and reconstruction surgery three days prior on Monday. She had skin cancer gone deep; thankfully the docs got all the cancer.
On Tuesday, two days before my I-40 West Hickory trip, Hubby and I had enjoyed supper with Daughter and our probably-future-Son-in-law. We go on double dates regularly. Always enjoyable they are.
This particular date was in celebration of my daughter's birthday, number 26. Somewhere in the conversation, probably-future-Son-in-law said something like, "Well, twenty-six years ago we know what you were doing and enduring. One of the two most physically painful times in you life."
"Ahh, no," I responded. "I'd have to say that hip-replacement surgery is the most intensely, compact, physically painful thing I've ever experienced."
And it is...as far as compact pain in a time frame that later heals. With pain that heals...there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
As I drove west two days after that birthday dinner date, I pondered Barbara's surgery; Linda's mom surgery; my hip-replacement surgery.
Yet foremost in my mind was the unending pain of peripheral neuropathy over the past two-plus years.
Peripheral neuropathy is a draining pain...drip, drip, drip. Often there is no light at the end of the tunnel; no looking-forward to when the injury heals and the pain eases or ceases. There is only Munch's The Scream and wanting this nightmare to not be reality.
I was pain free as I drove to Hickory last week. The lumbar and cervical epidural steroid shots are still working, though I have a bit of tingling and odd sensations in my hands and feet..and some shooting pain in my ankle. I'm curious as to how things will play out over the next six months. I am still only cautiously hopeful.
Regardless, as I drove in that pain free mode I thought, I felt, I embraced...."I will never, ever forget this torment of the last two-plus years."
It is torment. If anyone thinks otherwise...well...they'd just have to live it to understand it.
To all my fellow journeyers....my deepest respect and love and hope. <3
27 comments:
You raise an issue that many people don't understand. The pervasive, dull, never ending nerve pain is far worse than any injury or instant pain I have ever had. I would much prefer hitting my hand with a hammer than I would the every day pain I have. It sucks the life out of me, with some days being reduced to watching the clock so I can take the next pain pill.
One thing Polly finds strange about my battle with pain is that sometimes sharp pain is welcome because it removes the focus, for a moment, from the mundane, never ending normal pain.
Have a great week, my friend.
Bruce
I feel sure you've probably spent many a wee-morning hour banging arms/legs on the bed to try to get the pain to stop. There is a term for that slamming of the limbs on that fluffy mattress...but I can't find it now. Has something to do with trying to relay the pain elsewhere just for relief. It's a natural coping response...like when one has asthma or COPD and they lean forward to breathe.
Sometimes I'll ask Hubby, "Can I tell you where I hurt now?" And then I'd just describe to him what was shooting where...or tingling or tender...and the sensations/pain changed from moment to moment...like mercury. Some may say that by describing the pain, "That's focusing on the pain, isn't it?" I say, "Yeah, well...I focus on it anyway...it's screaming. Might as well talk about it." Most often this relaying the descriptions really helps. Maybe being able to describe them gives me a sense of power over them.
Regardless, looking at me from the outside, a person would not know that I'm sitting at that restaurant table with pins and needles and stabs...well, unless I wince a bit.
This may sound really strange...sometimes it would feel (even though I was in pain) that that painful part of my body was detached or separate from me. Maybe that's a type of coping mechanism.
I hope you have a good week too.
Thank you Bruce.
Much love to you and Polly...
<3
Living with pain is not easy. I have arthritis diagnosed when I was five years old and never know when an inflammation will rear with constant aching joints. I get those shots also but they don't last very long. I've had five babies and yes, labor pain is awful, but nothing compared to when they took a piece of my hip bone to make a replacement disk in my neck for one that painfully withered away with arthritis.. I thought for weeks they left the axe in my hip. I did have to have some heavy duty drugs that time.
Nerve pain must be terrible to deal with, my daughter had a nerve burned when they did a uterine ablation and it has changed her whole personality...she still walks with a limp. Hopefully, they will be able to better control your neuropathy soon Carol, Keep on writing...it seems to help me forget the aches...momentarily.
I'm very sorry you are having this continuous pain. Hopefully we will soon have a big medical breakthrough that cures peripheral neuropathy. And arthritis. And that other dull pain.
I'm quite familiar with pain relief that comes from pain being inflicted elsewhere. So I can relate to both of you, Carol and Bruce. When I had those terrible attacks in my head I described on your opening page 2006: Letter to Rosalie Rivenbark (John Welch) , in that comment with that title about “the little boy” (me), where it felt like rats were gnawing on my brain and a giant nut cracker was squeezing it into, I was able to do minimal work at a steak house, washing dishes. It was also my job to put the bake potatoes in the 550 degree oven and to remove them around an hour later.
And one day when this pain-fest was in full gear, I accidently burnt my arm on the door. ZAP!!! Immediately the pain was gone! And I thought, “Wow!” That bake potato oven immediately became my best friend and we made it a point never to miss our weekly get-togethers. Since then I’ve heard of other people cutting themselves to get the same relief.
Well, I don’t want to give anybody any false hope, because when we get older, our bodies don’t cooperate the way they used to. (I know. I’m starting to lose teeth and I’m still in denial.) Yet I do know that the Lord did drive that excruciating pain out of my head years ago, like he did with that fellow who, “[n]ight and day among the tombs and in the hills…would cry out and cut himself with stones” (Mark 5:5 NIV).
What I’m saying here is that I don’t think it would hurt to direct a whole bunch of your heart cries to this same Lord, like you’re pounding his door down. I’ll do the same. Sometimes that helps.
Take care the best you can. All of you.
Bill
Anna...do I recall correctly that you played piano growing up and that helped keep you fingers moving in spite of the arthritic pain or that piano helped you to regulate some of the pain?
Five years old to present...what a trooper you are! And in more ways than one...from living with and through the physical pain and so many other life experiences.
Thanks for the well wishes. I'm thinking that six months from now I'll know quite a bit more as far as possible relief. The other day when I hiked where the feral ponies roam..it felt soooooooooo good. I told the ponies that maybe...just maybe...I could backpack up this summer and tent with them. ;-) I made a video from the mountain with my iPhone....but for the life of me can't figure out how to upload the video anywhere.
Wishing you less painful days and moments too Anna. <3
Thanks Bill...
There have been times the past months I've wanted to cut off my hands...as bizarre as that sounds. Of course I wouldn't do that. I also know others who have stated similar...wanting to cut off a limb due to nerve pain.
Interesting about the zap of the oven door helping rid the deep emotional and mental pain and anguish. It sounds like that that deep anguish may have also caused headaches?
Pain is pain...and pain relief is pain relief. I'm thankful when anyone can find a way to relieve pain. (Well, cutting off limbs wouldn't really relieve pain...so I of course wouldn't count such as relief...nor burning or cutting...but I get what you are saying.)
Thanks again for the well wishes...
As always...to life and grilled corn. ;)
What I need to say for further clarification to those who have not read that earlier entry, and will do so now, is that the burning of my arm and the cutting that those "cutters" do to themselves is not the relief the Lord brought to me (or to that poor fellow in the Bible who cut himself with stones.) That was OUR way of relieving the pain. The Lord's remedy addressed the root of the problem to where we no longer needed to go to such extremes, which I'm hoping and praying that he will do for you you three, to some glorious degree, while still keeping in mind that our bodies are not what they used to be when we were, say, twenty. I haven't sought oven-relief for several decades now.
Also here are to two pound-the-door-down type of heart cries that Jesus recommended as examples of prayer …
1) The Parable of the Persistent Widow (Luke 18 NIV)
18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”
6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
2) A Friend Comes at Midnight (Luke 11 NKJV)
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
Hey Bill,
I appreciate the heart behind your words. From our private and public communications, I feel that your suggestions are genuine and come from a desire to see suffering relieved.
I, and many others I know, have sought God in the past for healing. For me, sometimes it was a comfort; sometimes not. Same for others, I'm sure.
As I'm sure you know, for some (and especially those who have come out of being beaten by scripture and not living up to the standards), suggestions to turn to scripture or a creator for healing just send them screaming in the other direction; ie: it isn't helpful. (I feel sure you are aware of all that so I'm not sharing anything you don't already know. So it's just a reminder.)
Hmmm....and maybe you already know that for most people who suffer with any type chronic illness, unsolicited advice/suggestions (whether it be spiritual, medical, mind-body, alternative, whatever form the suggestion/advice may take) isn't really helpful. People most often just need to be heard and acknowledged.
Also, for me (and I'm sure for others too..and maybe for yourself as well), the scriptures were a two-edged sword when it came to healing. (It's a long story...part of which you can read at this link->
LINK.)
Through those previous decades of illness (shared in the link-provided narrative), I believed with all my soul that God wanted me well. On one side of the two-edged sword, I'd blame myself for not being able to get the deliverance; ie: I *knew* "God wanted me whole" so I thought that I must not be "believing big enough" or "allowing Him to work," or maybe I was doing something wrong blocking my healing. On the other side of the sword, the promises of healing kept me seeking wellness.
Was it "God" that brought remedy from that past suffering? Maybe, maybe not. I lean more toward to embracing the illnesses, continuing to seek answers, journaling, genetics, other stuff, and serendipitous good fortune; ie: luck,
Yup...plain ole good luck. I currently no longer believe that "the law of believing" is a law at all; I don't believe in the "law of karma" either.
Imo, there is nothing supernatural about healing...just as there is nothing supernatural about eyesight or any of the amazing attributes of these incredible bodies of ours. As we all know, our bodies are magnificent bundles of life and complexities. For that matter, all of nature is. And it performs as it is designed.
Regarding your suggested prayers (heart cries) that Jesus possibly recommended...no, thank you.
For me, the sometimes heart thoughts/cries (prayer) just help to get stuff out of the heart and into the atmosphere or onto paper; sometimes that opens possibility-thinking for me. Other times it simply *is.* I'm fine with simply is and have learned to accept it and be abundantly grateful for all the good there is in life, in spite of all the suffering.
In regard to the scriptures you shared, I seldom ever debate scripture and doctrine, and I won't do so here. As we all know, there is so much suffering in the world that is never relieved, regardless of prayer. There are also many joys in life that are celebrated, regardless of prayer. As far as never giving up, imo, there is time *to* give up...and that is okay too.
Lately, I've again been reading some of Rainer Maria Rilke. I like these words of Rilke. I guess they are a kind of prayer: “Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
Thanks again...to life and grilled corn!
Carol, I couldn’t agree with you more on the “law of believing.” The Way taught us that, well, all human suffering is the result of our unbelief. That’s why I could only take 7 years of it. I’m amazed you stayed in for as long as you did. “All suffering is the result of unbelief”, is it? Then I guess Jesus must have been the biggest unbeliever of us all, don’t you think? What, beaten beyond recognition and nailed to the cross like that? Terrible, wasn’t he? And the apostle Paul – just pitiful!
“…in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?” (2 Cor. 11:23-29 NJKV)
Now that I think about it, Carol, it looks to me like Paul was worse than Jesus. And look at Stephen. I don’t know how many times I heard that he died because he just didn’t believe God. Really? That’s not what Jesus said. Didn’t he say that his murderers were the ones who had the problem with unbelief, not him?
“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. 3 And these things they will do to you BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN THE FATHER NOR ME. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. (John 16:1-4 NKJV).
So who’s right? Jesus or The Way International?
We were pretty much taught that all suffering is a sign that we won’t be getting rewards. Really? Didn’t Paul tell us THE OPPOSITE, that “necessary suffering” is a prerequisite to becoming a joint-heir with Christ? “… heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, IF INDEED WE SUFFER WITH HIM, that we may also be glorified together” (Romans 8:17).
Carol, like you, I am well acquainted with suffering. I’ve had a hernia, several broken bones – remind me never to fall 22 feet again. Some infirmities I may never whip. Especially that dental problem I mentioned. (Yet I must admit that my mental problems have eased a bit, now that, like you I have learned to let some things go.) And on my death bed I’m sure I won’t be whistling Dixie, and like a spring chicken, doing back flips.
Yet 30 years ago I didn’t have to resort to pulling out a shot gun like a loved one did to get rid of the gnawing rats and giant nut cracker that tormented me. And, like you, I don’t attribute it to karma either. If it was not a little divine intervention, what do you think it might have been?
Please pass the grilled corn. Thank you.
Also, unlike The Way, I also find that some plateaus in life can only be reached by going through -- rather than avoiding -- suffering.
I just saw the movie *Captain Phillips* tonight. He was in the sea a few days.
Great movie. What incredible acting by those pirate actors. Tom Hanks did great too, but I wouldn't expect otherwise.
Yup, on that grilled corn.
PS..I'm glad you didn't pull that trigger either. I know you know all too well the loved one's who are left alive to grieve the suicide of a loved one.
You asked: "If it was not a little divine intervention, what do you think it might have been?"
Maybe simply the will to live or somewhere deep within a spark of purpose to keep on living? I'm sure there are other possibilities too. I'm glad you didn't pull the trigger. <3
Part One (I had too man characters too)
Thanks. I didn't actually ever go down that road of using a gun. But it must have been 10 or 12 years ago that I found out from relatives I hadn't seen in a long time that a cousin who was my age had done just that. I immediately called his sister and found out that he and I had gone down the same road, that we had experienced the excruciating pain in our heads which had come on the heels of tremendous family pain. And he had pretty much done the same things to end it all that I had. Except he then took it further to a no-fail step -- a shot gun. But I had told Jesus that maybe I should get some rewards before I see him and spit out what was in my mouth. The gnawing rats and giant squeezing nut cracker in my brain were immediately driven out, never to return. So my great need to end it all was suddenly gone too.
Carol, I appreciate your attributing my escape from this fate (that my mother, my stepmother's first husband, this cousin and a later cousin, along with loved one of several of my customers, could not find their away out of) to the possibility of my having a superior will to live. I wish that were the case. But at this time I don't think it is. But it would have made a great teaching on the "law of believing," wouldn't it? "Bill's Will to Live!" But you and I are both beyond believing that.
No, I had completely given up. My next conscious moment would be to see Jesus face to face and I couldn't wait to make that happen.
Carol, I still believe that the Lord used that ministry leader who messed us up in so many other ways to actually do some good. His teaching on getting rewards after we are saved helped me to abort this mission I was gung ho to finish.
So Carol, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, like I have done in so many other areas. I choose to eat the fish and throw away the bones when it comes to finding value in The Way. Actually, that's how I found your blog. I went panning for gold and a couple of weeks ago and there you were. Please tell your husband he found a gold mine. would you? Thanks.
So does this mean that I believe Dr. Wierwille is off the hook? That all the harm he caused people when he forbade us private access to our own perceptions (when he told us we could not privately interpret the scriptures) and when he used his position to sexually violate women and harm people in other ways, will just be forgotten? Just burnt up on Burn-The-Chaff Day in heaven? I don't think so. He forgot to tell us that our Lord will reward him for all the bad he did when creating his "Household of Lords." Because HE DID NOT REPENT and did not show us he had with a change of behavior:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD" (2 Corinthians 5:10). And as someone has recently brought up, there could very well be "shock and surprise at the rapture!"
(Part Two) So I'm now asking the Lord to show me how I still contribute to the building and fortifying of the "Household of Lords" mentality. Where do I still "lord it over" people, demanding that they change before I would even think of blessing them with my presence, when the best thing I could do for them would be to become a loving example of how this is done?
And I’ve recently been shown. Carol, you recently showed me where I had blown it big time. No it wasn't condemnation. But it was correction. And you didn't even know you were doing it. As you know, I was so bitter toward a former "Limb Coordinator" (state ministry leader) for his "I have no friends when it comes to the Word" stance that wouldn't let him pick up the phone and call me or respond to my mail. So my attitude became, "Fine with me! Not talking to you again till you change your ways." Then I told you about it. You then were inspired to ask for his name. And when I gave it to you, you told me he'd just died... Just died? Oh, how I must change.
"Bill's Will to Live!" *chuckle* :D
Actually, what I meant by will to live isn't exclusive to a superior will to live. I was thinking more about the natural surviving that life often (but of course not always) seems to cling to. Some years back as I was pondering nature, I realized how much nature strives to survive or put another way, wills to live. Even the plants and trees. They just keep coming up (via progeny) or growing back (from deep roots) regardless of the hurricanes and fires. (I realize that many die too.) I also thought about how many seeds are spread around all the time....so many seeds. Of course, not all grow and I'd guess the majority die and don't make it through the soil. But the ones that do and that continue to grow seem to have a built-in tenacity to live.
Aww...thanks for the "goldmine" compliment. Actually, my husband is the goldmine. He deserves sainthood or something. ;)
Yea...death is becoming more and more *real* as we all age. The other-side-of-fifty, well...the lessons continue.
Thanks for sharing Bill. :-)
The final attempt before moving on to other things to talk about.
(Part One -- once again, too long)
Carol, you make some very good points here. What you are saying is kind of like I had the survival-of-the-fittest mentality. And I can see where you might see that. Yet what I was endeavoring to say was that while I had that excruciating sensation of rats gnawing on my brain, and of that giant nut cracker squeezing it into, I had a ZERO will to live. I wanted out of town on the first bus.
I, Johnny Jump-Up have the deepest respect for your views, Maggie Muggins. (For the reader who may not know, V.P. Wierwille used these two characters along with a boy named Henry Baloco in a dramatization of a Sunday school teacher asking her students what they thought a certain verse in the Bible meant. He’d say, “Maggie Muggins, what do you think this verse means?” And when she and the others gave their perception of what that verse meant to them, he would tell us that it doesn’t matter what they think. It’s what the Bible says it means that counts. Well, duh? One must engage his or her mind to be able to read that Bible, right? This was an ingeniously wicked power-play to render us powerless in challenging any interpretation this founder of the Way Ministry wanted to give us.) So, Carol, please continue to express them, ya hear? I’m going to go on one more venture into my understanding (or actually, my lack off understanding) of the Bible to explain why I experienced a miracle here but not in many other areas in my life. Then I’ll not continue to try to convince you.
For me, the thought of actually wanting to survive (with the excruciating pain in my head at full force like it was) did not even occur to me till I thought of earning a few rewards before seeing Jesus face to face. I mean nothing had stopped my two previous attempts at departing Planet Earth. And nothing was going to stop this one. And if I would have failed again, I would have probably been led the way that my cousin successfully ended his journey on earth. I would have probably used a gun.
So I still can’t deny Christ and his Father’s involvement in helping me stick around. Carol, you have told me that you don’t like to argue the scriptures and I respect your wishes. I don’t like arguing either. So this is the last effort I will make at trying to convince you that I had help from above. You say that you tried and you tried and you tried to figure out why God had not healed you of that debilitating malady that’s got hold of you. You questioned whether or not you were believing God big enough. Well, I’ve done the exact same thing in other areas in my life, especially when it comes to family life. But I’m realizing now that God is not my Genie in a bottle. And just because I ask him to do something doesn’t mean he’s going to do it – or do it MY WAY. We were told in that ministry that we can do the same things that Christ could do and even greater, right? (As you know, there is a Bible verse which says just that.) So why couldn’t I do what he did many other times that I tried?
The final attempt before moving on to other things to talk about.
(Part two)
During my Way days, a friend of mine who happened upon a motorcycle wreck stopped to see if she could help. The nurse on the scene had pronounce the cyclist dead and told her to leave. She disobeyed her and told her that she was supposed to be there, then told the man to get up in the name of Jesus Christ. He brushed off his pants and walked away. Also my brother said that he is certain that his mother-in-law dropped dead in their Pentecostal church, for she showed no pulse and had stopped breathing. And she too got up when the whole congregation gathered around her and prayed for her. But the two times I tried to do this – once at work after a man fell to his death off a steel beam and another time when a friend of mine was also killed on his motorcycle – absolutely nothing happened! Why didn’t God come through for me? I don’t know.
If Jesus could put an ear back on that fellow that Peter had sliced it off of, tell me, could it have been that much harder for him to put his cousin, John the Babtist’s, head back on? My goodness, that was his cousin! Why didn’t he do it? The New Testament Apostles were also raising people from the dead all over the place. So why didn’t they raise Stephen? Or James, the brother of John -- for God’s sake??!! I mean he was an apostle!!! Could it be that they also tried and failed. Or did they not get the needed revelation from the Lord to do so? I don’t know. I’m just a curious as you were.
Yet as I showed you earlier, the Bible tells us that there are things we must ALL suffer in order to become joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), something The Way flatly denied or explained away. Could it be that there is something Christ is wanting to teach you during through this time of tormenting pain, something he too learned, when he learned to listen to and obey his Father during his own excruciating (ex = out from + cruciating = a crucifixion) ordeal? Maybe something that you won’t want to miss out on? Just wondering.
Hebrews 5:8-9 (NKJV)
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience (learned to listen and obey) by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey (listen to and obey) Him,
2 Corinthians 10:5 (NKJV)
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of (to where we are listening to and obeying) Christ.
I always appreciate your thoughts on these matters. And since I don’t want to argue the scriptures any more than you do, this is the last attempt I will make to convince you that divine intervention had anything to do with the removal of my big time death wish. Catch you later.
Bill
Bill,
My sincere apologies. I wasn't tying to change your mind as far as your belief and reasoning in how your life was spared. When you asked me the question, I proposed my thoughts as to a possibility.
If there is a time when all is known, then maybe we will have all these lingering questions answered.
As far as learning through suffering, there is much learning for sure. Loss and grief and pain teach many life lessons...as we all know. Only part being empathy, gratitude, fortitude, surrender. (Hmmm...that might make an interesting blog post sometime, "lessons from loss.")
The topic of lessons from loss brings to mind something I recently read on Facebook, an excerpt from the book, "My Losing Season" by Pat Conroy. Here is the link to the excerpt (it's short):
Link to excerpt
Your comment also brings to mind a book I buried myself in for a year or so after leaving The Way. It's entitled "The Cry of the Soul." It is written from a scriptural perspective and gave me much solace and acceptance during that first year away from the "walls of Zion."
Here is a link to that book. From the link one can read excerpts.
Link to Cry of the Soul
Thanks again for sharing you thoughts.
To life...with gratitude and more grilled corn on the cob. :)
I just had another thought Bill...
Without going back and reading all the exchanges between us...I may be wrong (or projecting) in my last comment when I stated "I wasn't tying to change your mind..." You may not have thought that at all; ie: that I was trying to change your mind. (the joys of textual communication) So, if I projected/misunderstood, apologies again.
I do have a question, if you don't mind. I'm curious as to why you feel the need(?) to convince me regarding your experience and viewpoint?
Why I’m so eager to convince you (Part one)
Carol,
Actually I’ve enjoyed our conversation enormously! With your audience that averages around a hundred per day, of which I would think some might read what I write, this assembly, if you will, has been the most liberating of all assemblies I’ve participated in since I first heard Wierwille back in 1980 tell Johnny Jump-Up, Maggie Muggins, and Henry Boloco to sit down and shut up. That their opinions did not count. So you don’t need to apologize at all. Well, okay, you can feel bad, but just for one minute. I’m counting. This will give me time to see if I really want to start my own household of lords…. fifty eight, fifty nine, sixty. That sure was tempting, but … I decline.
Carol, I really appreciate your decision years ago to post your husband’s letter to Rosalie Rivenbark. His request of her to “Let up, lady,” was indeed a noble effort. Like you and me, he really thought we needed an earthly mediator between God and us but had become disillusioned. The letter kind of reminded me of when back in 1983 I wrote Wierwille asking if it was okay to fellowship with Jesus and him telling me that I could and then having to hear Martindale that very same month telling me to stop. That’s when I realized, “Houston, we’ve got a problem!” And that’s why just a few years later, it wasn’t too difficult for me to board John Lynn’s and John Shoenheit’s Greyhound Bus out of the ministry. I was a grain of salt that parachuted out of that large salt shaker (The Way) and landed in theirs. Later on I kept parachuting into smaller and smaller shakers, whether originating in The Way or out, till I hit the bottom, crawling out of the last one to just walk away.
And I’ve been looking for others who have left their salt shakers too. So it’s been good to find you. And I’ve enjoyed reading what I’ve read so far about the journey you’ve taken. At the same time, my rejection of the Household of Lords has actually led me much closer to Jesus Christ, rather than away from him. I long to experience everything I can about the one-flesh (or one with him in spirit) relationship with Christ that we did not have in The Way.
Why I’m so eager to convince you (Part 2)
And I want to get closer to His Father. Years ago I remember reading Daniel in the lion’s den one night and thanking God for loving Daniel enough to send an angel into that den to close the mouths of those lions. And then I fell asleep. Well the next day when I was hauling away some logs in a wheel barrow, I picked one up that had a huge hornets’ nest attached to it. Half way to the wheel barrow I saw the thing and panicked and threw it down – nest first! Immediately I was encompassed by a great cloud of witnesses that was as angry as, well, hornets! There were probably a hundred. Did I decide on a big fight? Or a flight? Or both? Actually none of the above. Instead, it was complete surrender. Not to the enemy. But to the one who was bigger than the enemy. When they were just inches from my face I cried out, “Remember Daniel in the Lion’s den!!!!” Immediately every single one of them were driven into the woods. Just like those gnawing rats and crushing nut cracker, back when I surrendered to Jesus.
Does that mean that I no longer need Raid Wasp and Hornet’s spray? Not hardly. I’ve been stung probably a dozen times by wasps since that blessed day (but thankfully not all at once). Yet when I needed it most, when I felt most helpless, when I had completely surrendered, I believe with all my heart that God came through for me. And I believe he can come through for you in great ways too. I don’t know if you will ever be completely free of that disease. (Those missing teeth of mine haven’t grown back yet either. And I’m still pretty much in the dark when it comes to certain aspects of family life.) I would love to see you healed. But I’m also a realist. I know that as we get older, our bodies aren’t what they used to be. And I have yet to see anybody on Good Morning America who’s lived forever. We've gotta die of something. Yet I believe God’s Son will make good on his promise to manifest himself to you in ways that, to you, will be indisputable (John 14:21), if that’s what you also want.
You asked me why I’m so eager to convince you of my experience and views. Well, I’m hungry to spend time with people who enjoy spending time with God and His Son, Jesus. And to be in a setting where each participant can express what he or she thinks, rather than to have to sign some creed. (Because I believe that God has poured out His spirit upon ALL FLESH who believes in his Son, not just upon one Moses, who, if you question what he says, the earth opens up and swallows you or you get leprosy.) That’s why I am so eager to convince you that God and His Son are real. And to show you my true belief that what we experienced in The Way was really a confining and impenetrable “Berlin Wall,” rather than heaven’s liberating and protective “walls of Zion,” that extend from heaven to earth and are equipped with plenty of gates (like the “dung gate”) that we can open and close, to usher out toxins and terrorists and to usher in good food and friendships. That’s why. Thanks for asking.
Let's see. What goes with grilled corn?
Hey Bill,
I have parts 1 & 2 also...due to character allowance.
(Part 1 of 2):
Chuckle....glad you figured out that not starting your own household of lord things real quickly!
Salt shakers. I prefer salt grinders these days. I even have a block of salt that I grate...but I got to where I couldn't use it..so bought a grinder. The salt is much fresher! (I'm sure I can come up with some analogy.)
Currently, I don't have the energy or desire to engage an ongoing dialog in this comment section (or maybe anywhere else) regarding my experiences/perceptions of all the ins & outs & angles of Wierwille, The Way, fellowship with God & Jesus, my own (what I'll term) God moments in & out of The Way & before & after The Way, etc. But I have lots of blog posts (that continue to come off my keyboard) about the subjects. ;-D
Have you thought about starting a blog? It's really easy & it's free. You seem to enjoy writing & you write well & with painted descriptions that can be visualized (at least for me & I'm sure for other folks, especially ex-Way). (Glad those hornets retreated.) On a blog you could share your many accounts & perspectives of life & eventually get some readers & commentors, if you want to. If you do start a blog, let me know, & I'll link it on my side bar.
(Part 2 or 2):
Ahh regarding your answer to my question & what it is you are hungry for (besides grilled corn).
I'm sure you've figured out by now (especially when you expressed earlier that it was your final attempt) that this blog isn't the place to find folks who have a desire to spend time with God and Jesus. The few folks who regularly read & post at toss & ripple do so for various reasons, but (to my knowledge) none of those reasons are in line with spending time with God and Jesus. So, nah...this blog doesn't meet that need. And it isn't for solicitation of such. :-)
There are some places online that might possibly serve that venue for you. There are actually probably a multitude of places, but I only personally know of a few scattered hither & yon.
In case you are interested, below is one link to a discussion board of folks who have come out/are coming out of biblical religious abuse & most (all?) remain Christian. It's not an ex-Way board. But you may find some common ground & diverse scriptural views too...all with mostly respectful dialog. At least that was the case some years back when I participated there. If that board isn't a fit for now, it can be a springboard to maybe find some other places. Here is the link:
Christian Recovery
There is also the ex-Way discussion board, GreaseSpot Cafe. where there is a doctrinal room Again, if it isn't a fit, it could be a springboard. Here is a link:
GreaseSpot Cafe doctrinal
I don't know how familiar you are with online discussion boards, but if you aren't familiar with them, you'll figure it out as you go along. In case you aren't familiar: You do have to register in order to post & sometimes in order to see certain threads which may be hidden from public view. Various boards have various rules about new members. Most times, rules are set in place to help make sure a new member isn't joining to simply troll or to solicit or for various other hidden unhealthy agendas. If you aren't familiar with online boards & do decide to join any, I suggests you read all threads addressed to "New Members"...those threads really are helpful as to what the board is about & how to engage successfully on that board. (I met one of my current very best friends through an online discussion board.)
Toss & ripple isn't really significant except to me & maybe a handful of people. It doesn't get much traffic. I just checked my stats & in the past 30 days, unique visitors range from 2 to 20 per day, the average being 9/day. Page views (which can be from the same visitor) range from 1 to 101 per day, the average being 21/day. It's just a tiny, minuscule partial drop in cybersphere...but it occasionally makes a ripple.
Pass some butter & the salt grinder for my corn! *nyum* *nyum
Thank you very much. I’ve been thinking about starting my own blog ever since I became aware of yours. You were quite daring to start your own, I must say. When it comes to those sites you mentioned me visiting, I’ve checked out Grease Spot Café before and found it pretty informative. And I have moved on. And I think that I have pretty much gone through my own Christian recovery. (The only reason I mentioned Wierwille and Martindale is because you knew them quite well, and Martindale much better than me.) I believe I have reached buoyancy, and am ready to mingle more, if you will, with other Christians who don’t think that they must do the Lord a favor by taking me to church and having me jump through their hoops.
I’m going to give myself a few days, and then will attempt to start a blog, I think. I may have to ask you a question or two if that’s okay with you. Thanks. And I’ll let you know if I do get things up and running. Thanks for your offer to link it on your side bar if I do. I’ll check by from time to time to see how you are doing. Catch ya later.
I may also check out discussion boards where there is no mandatory statement of beliefs to abide by that would hinder dialogue. Thanks for suggesting this.
You're welcome Bill.
Good luck on the blog if you decide to start one. You can email me with any questions and if I have answers I'll let you know. I'm pretty techno ignorant, so if I can figure out blogs and such, about anyone can.
:-)
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